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I don't generally encourage speculation because... while you do it, I don't typically want to hear it. After all, you don't want me deciding your idea is better and stealing it for my next story. BUT... I know that some people enjoy speculating on what is really happening in the tunnels or who is hooking up with who on the faculty roster... so this is the place for all those wild hair brained ideas.
Ribbon and Phase
18 Oct 2021 02:45 #682
by ghoti
Ribbon and Phase was created by ghoti
I don't know if this is the right place to put this, but I was re-reading the Ribbon stories, which got me to thinking.
Now, I'm not necessarily as much of a hands-on guy as Al Morgan was written, but it seems to me that what you want the most if you're granted a high-level exemplar brain (and body) is to make sure your goals get accomplished. Now, in the WU, gadgeteering seems to be a much better way to get a scientific task achieved, and mental health disorders seem to be within that area. One may also make the argument for magic or ESP, or devising, but if it is within the realm of possible and tangible, that seems to be your best bet.
Following from that line of thinking, one of Phase's motivations seems to be to nip potential supervillainy in the bud, as it were, by providing good solid financial advice and backing so they'll not need to become outlaws. In the process, mutants aren't a menace, they get the rewards of their labor, and the world becomes a better place. This is potentially an outgrowth of being convinced when still just a boy that being a doctor would be a lesser use of his talents than becoming a financier, as he could help more people helping run the Goodkind empire (which he can no longer do but is still using the same approach to make one of his own).
When I was in programming class a long time ago, I think I was the king of brute-forcing stuff, but it only makes sense to me that if I had the motivations of a Ribbon, unless I truly had a gift for doing it myself, I think I'd try to build a structure that would recruit and support as many of the brightest people as I could to focus on the task at hand. In other words, I might shift to finance and drum up business with as many gadgeteers as I could, so as to be able to solve the problem better by recruiting as many as I could rather than trying to do it myself.
It seems to me that this is a pattern which has been followed by a few other characters in the WU as well. It's also been expressed that everything carries over (Bubble is an Ex-6 and a ditz, for example). If I were Phase, I would be looking for people like Ribbon, with a good brain and a lot of motivation, but not necessarily aptitude, and argue this way. Possibly get myself a deputy for later on, possibly just keep on my work of making more mad scientists do useful things, also to help my friend Mega-Death and others of course more effectively.
Now, I'm not necessarily as much of a hands-on guy as Al Morgan was written, but it seems to me that what you want the most if you're granted a high-level exemplar brain (and body) is to make sure your goals get accomplished. Now, in the WU, gadgeteering seems to be a much better way to get a scientific task achieved, and mental health disorders seem to be within that area. One may also make the argument for magic or ESP, or devising, but if it is within the realm of possible and tangible, that seems to be your best bet.
Following from that line of thinking, one of Phase's motivations seems to be to nip potential supervillainy in the bud, as it were, by providing good solid financial advice and backing so they'll not need to become outlaws. In the process, mutants aren't a menace, they get the rewards of their labor, and the world becomes a better place. This is potentially an outgrowth of being convinced when still just a boy that being a doctor would be a lesser use of his talents than becoming a financier, as he could help more people helping run the Goodkind empire (which he can no longer do but is still using the same approach to make one of his own).
When I was in programming class a long time ago, I think I was the king of brute-forcing stuff, but it only makes sense to me that if I had the motivations of a Ribbon, unless I truly had a gift for doing it myself, I think I'd try to build a structure that would recruit and support as many of the brightest people as I could to focus on the task at hand. In other words, I might shift to finance and drum up business with as many gadgeteers as I could, so as to be able to solve the problem better by recruiting as many as I could rather than trying to do it myself.
It seems to me that this is a pattern which has been followed by a few other characters in the WU as well. It's also been expressed that everything carries over (Bubble is an Ex-6 and a ditz, for example). If I were Phase, I would be looking for people like Ribbon, with a good brain and a lot of motivation, but not necessarily aptitude, and argue this way. Possibly get myself a deputy for later on, possibly just keep on my work of making more mad scientists do useful things, also to help my friend Mega-Death and others of course more effectively.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Mister D
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18 Oct 2021 15:52 #684
by Sir Lee
Replied by Sir Lee on topic Ribbon and Phase
What is one's best path to achieve one's goals? Hard to tell.
Trevor Goodkind might have become a good doctor, but in a way he was a prisoner of his own wealth, which would continuously drag him back to administrative roles. Consider that whatever much an hypothetical Dr. Trevor might charge for his services, it would still be peanuts compared to his personal fortune. So he might as well work for free and offer his services to people who couldn't afford good medical care. But then, he is just one man. If he wants to provide quality care for underserved people, he would end up having to hire more people out of his own pocket. Pretty soon, he finds himself that managing the NGO he's funding is taking so much time that he can't see patients. Vidicon over at Twisting the Hellmouth has a character (Simon Meier of the "Waifs and Strays" series) which is in pretty much this situation: he's a doctor, a good doctor, who likes being a doctor, but as heir to a Goodkind-level fortune, he hardly has time to be a doctor.
Also, while Trevor might have entertained the idea of being a doctor when younger, like most of us think about a variety of professions when kids, I don't think Ayla is particularly suited for it. He didn't have any particular interest or aptitude for the biological sciences, for instence. Sure, Trevor is very smart and driven to be an overachiever, so he would be able to crack medical school if he put his mind to it. But you don't see him reading biology textbooks for fun; if anything, what he would like to do would be something in the Arts and Literature field -- I have an acquaintance who has the sort of mindset Ayla has; he has a Ph.D. from a world-class European university in some esoteric field like Semiotics or whatever. Ayla would be very happy to spend the next few decades debating my friend on obscure points of Greek literature over fine food (yes, my friend is also a gourmet).
But Ayla also was trained on Business with a capital B and boldface. And turns out that he's GOOD at it, beyond mere training. Boy has a definite talent for finances. And he's used to the idea of hiring people to do stuff for him. So, it may not be his first love like the Arts, but Ayla has goals and has a talent that can be put to work towards these goals; so going into Business makes a lot of sense for him.
Now, Ribbon. Ribbon's previous life experience was as a hands-on small-business owner. She got an upgraded brain with the Exemplar mental package this time, and a chance to put that brain to work. She's used to think of tackling problems herself, not farming them out unless it's outside her area of expertise. So she's currently thinking on putting her new brain to work in research. But while she has fifty years of life experience, she is pretty new at the whole higher-education and research thing, and she hasn't yet discovered what her real talents are. It might end up that the best use of her talents is as, say, a top-level fashion designer who uses her money to finance medical research.
Or... she might turn out to be good at the biological sciences thing. You can pay people to do things you want done, but you can't pay them to want the things you want done. She has a lot of motivation to tackle the problem of Diedrick's. Science is not all done by a few stratospheric geniuses who get almost divine inspiration; in fact, most of it isn't. It's mostly done by many, many "merely" smart people who are very dedicated at their jobs, and will spend years tackling a problem until they find a new piece of knowledge that opens new doors. Ribbon has the brains and has the dedication; it's still to be seen if she has the aptitude and mindset to be a researcher, or if her talents lie elsewhere.
As for gadgeteering... yes, hiring talented bio-gadgeteers to tackle Diedrick's might be the best approach if you have the money -- but we still don't know if Ribbon will be able to earn that kind of money. And she can't make herself a gadgeteer. So for the time being, getting educated in the biological sciences is a good idea; if she can't make oodles of money, she can go into research herself. If she ends up having the money, she will have the knowledge to ask the right questions.
Trevor Goodkind might have become a good doctor, but in a way he was a prisoner of his own wealth, which would continuously drag him back to administrative roles. Consider that whatever much an hypothetical Dr. Trevor might charge for his services, it would still be peanuts compared to his personal fortune. So he might as well work for free and offer his services to people who couldn't afford good medical care. But then, he is just one man. If he wants to provide quality care for underserved people, he would end up having to hire more people out of his own pocket. Pretty soon, he finds himself that managing the NGO he's funding is taking so much time that he can't see patients. Vidicon over at Twisting the Hellmouth has a character (Simon Meier of the "Waifs and Strays" series) which is in pretty much this situation: he's a doctor, a good doctor, who likes being a doctor, but as heir to a Goodkind-level fortune, he hardly has time to be a doctor.
Also, while Trevor might have entertained the idea of being a doctor when younger, like most of us think about a variety of professions when kids, I don't think Ayla is particularly suited for it. He didn't have any particular interest or aptitude for the biological sciences, for instence. Sure, Trevor is very smart and driven to be an overachiever, so he would be able to crack medical school if he put his mind to it. But you don't see him reading biology textbooks for fun; if anything, what he would like to do would be something in the Arts and Literature field -- I have an acquaintance who has the sort of mindset Ayla has; he has a Ph.D. from a world-class European university in some esoteric field like Semiotics or whatever. Ayla would be very happy to spend the next few decades debating my friend on obscure points of Greek literature over fine food (yes, my friend is also a gourmet).
But Ayla also was trained on Business with a capital B and boldface. And turns out that he's GOOD at it, beyond mere training. Boy has a definite talent for finances. And he's used to the idea of hiring people to do stuff for him. So, it may not be his first love like the Arts, but Ayla has goals and has a talent that can be put to work towards these goals; so going into Business makes a lot of sense for him.
Now, Ribbon. Ribbon's previous life experience was as a hands-on small-business owner. She got an upgraded brain with the Exemplar mental package this time, and a chance to put that brain to work. She's used to think of tackling problems herself, not farming them out unless it's outside her area of expertise. So she's currently thinking on putting her new brain to work in research. But while she has fifty years of life experience, she is pretty new at the whole higher-education and research thing, and she hasn't yet discovered what her real talents are. It might end up that the best use of her talents is as, say, a top-level fashion designer who uses her money to finance medical research.
Or... she might turn out to be good at the biological sciences thing. You can pay people to do things you want done, but you can't pay them to want the things you want done. She has a lot of motivation to tackle the problem of Diedrick's. Science is not all done by a few stratospheric geniuses who get almost divine inspiration; in fact, most of it isn't. It's mostly done by many, many "merely" smart people who are very dedicated at their jobs, and will spend years tackling a problem until they find a new piece of knowledge that opens new doors. Ribbon has the brains and has the dedication; it's still to be seen if she has the aptitude and mindset to be a researcher, or if her talents lie elsewhere.
As for gadgeteering... yes, hiring talented bio-gadgeteers to tackle Diedrick's might be the best approach if you have the money -- but we still don't know if Ribbon will be able to earn that kind of money. And she can't make herself a gadgeteer. So for the time being, getting educated in the biological sciences is a good idea; if she can't make oodles of money, she can go into research herself. If she ends up having the money, she will have the knowledge to ask the right questions.
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19 Oct 2021 09:52 #689
by Mister D
Replied by Mister D on topic Ribbon and Phase
Lots of chewiness in this conversation.
A conversation i had with another lecturer when i was teaching at a college 20+ years ago, was about exactly this topic.
We were both techies who were interested in the latest and trendiest technology.
We were bouncing ideas around for different start-up's based on the newer technology, and he said that this is where techies don't operate so well in a business context, as we were talking about the technology and thinking how we could learn to use it, but most of the people that finance these companies, would have an idea, and then ask themselves who they knew that was already skilled in that technology, so could implement it quickly.
Different ranges of focus.
We were focused on the technology and how-it-worked/could-be-used, but the finance people were focused on how they could make a profit from it.
As the original question was "How do you achieve your goals?", then it becomes a choice of, do you want the results by doing it yourself, or, do you just want the results, no matter who does the work.
While both are valid methods for getting things done within a given energy-budget, getting other people to do the research that you need will always give larger results, as you can start to take advantage of Economies-Of-Scale.
Phase's approach towards reducing the number of supervillains by making sure that the techies don't get ripped off, is a great idea.
This also feeds into a larger narrative about power.
One method of analysing political power on our version of reality, holds that there are only 15 real alliances that have political power, as they are the Nuclear Bureaucracies.
It's the inter-connected network of resource-gathering organisations, manufacturing organisations, defence/diplomatic organisations, and, the maintenance systems that they have to use, in order to build and maintain a nuclear arsenal.
This includes countries that don't have any nuclear weapons right now, but have the resource-base, and the manufacturing capability to build them in a few months if they need them, so are treated by other Nuclear Bureaucracies, as if they did have them.
That's our planet.
Now, this changes completely, when you look at the personal power held by individual mutants.
The detente will be way more fragile, which is why the TLA Agencies are constantly monitoring Whateley.
One example of someone running a more combative approach is Gizmatic.
He's a techie that got ripped off early on, and decided that he wasn't going to stand for it, which is why he founded the Order of the Worn Wrench.
This is also why he uses the more effective approach, by appointing competent & loyal administrators, and, letting them do their jobs, while he is using his time in the lab, doing what he is most effective at.
A conversation i had with another lecturer when i was teaching at a college 20+ years ago, was about exactly this topic.
We were both techies who were interested in the latest and trendiest technology.
We were bouncing ideas around for different start-up's based on the newer technology, and he said that this is where techies don't operate so well in a business context, as we were talking about the technology and thinking how we could learn to use it, but most of the people that finance these companies, would have an idea, and then ask themselves who they knew that was already skilled in that technology, so could implement it quickly.
Different ranges of focus.
We were focused on the technology and how-it-worked/could-be-used, but the finance people were focused on how they could make a profit from it.
As the original question was "How do you achieve your goals?", then it becomes a choice of, do you want the results by doing it yourself, or, do you just want the results, no matter who does the work.
While both are valid methods for getting things done within a given energy-budget, getting other people to do the research that you need will always give larger results, as you can start to take advantage of Economies-Of-Scale.
Phase's approach towards reducing the number of supervillains by making sure that the techies don't get ripped off, is a great idea.
This also feeds into a larger narrative about power.
One method of analysing political power on our version of reality, holds that there are only 15 real alliances that have political power, as they are the Nuclear Bureaucracies.
It's the inter-connected network of resource-gathering organisations, manufacturing organisations, defence/diplomatic organisations, and, the maintenance systems that they have to use, in order to build and maintain a nuclear arsenal.
This includes countries that don't have any nuclear weapons right now, but have the resource-base, and the manufacturing capability to build them in a few months if they need them, so are treated by other Nuclear Bureaucracies, as if they did have them.
That's our planet.
Now, this changes completely, when you look at the personal power held by individual mutants.
The detente will be way more fragile, which is why the TLA Agencies are constantly monitoring Whateley.
One example of someone running a more combative approach is Gizmatic.
He's a techie that got ripped off early on, and decided that he wasn't going to stand for it, which is why he founded the Order of the Worn Wrench.
This is also why he uses the more effective approach, by appointing competent & loyal administrators, and, letting them do their jobs, while he is using his time in the lab, doing what he is most effective at.
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20 Oct 2021 00:00 #691
by ghoti
Replied by ghoti on topic Ribbon and Phase
Everyone has a different perspective. In WU, making truly awesome amounts of money is not only possible, but in fact easy with the right powerset. Even the poorest characters in the stories have opportunities available to them by virtue of their powers that no "normal" person does. Tackling other problems, however, is trickier.
I've always considered myself very pragmatic in my approach to problems (if not what I tried to do for a living). If you troubleshoot, you try one approach, then another, then another, until you accomplish your goal. If you're wrestling someone, or any other kind of sparring, you try one thing, then another, etc. I never understood the insistence some people had to "do it myself" if what you're doing isn't working. I mean, I'm all in favor of self-sufficiency, and figuring stuff out for yourself, but I'm more about the results. If I've got a goal to do something, the important thing is that it gets done. I've got no problem doing it myself, but the most important thing is to get the goal taken care of.
That's my perspective. Don't give up trying to get what you want, but take what you can get while you're going for it; and if you see a way that is better or will accomplish more or faster, take it. If you need to zoom in or out, do so.
I've always considered myself very pragmatic in my approach to problems (if not what I tried to do for a living). If you troubleshoot, you try one approach, then another, then another, until you accomplish your goal. If you're wrestling someone, or any other kind of sparring, you try one thing, then another, etc. I never understood the insistence some people had to "do it myself" if what you're doing isn't working. I mean, I'm all in favor of self-sufficiency, and figuring stuff out for yourself, but I'm more about the results. If I've got a goal to do something, the important thing is that it gets done. I've got no problem doing it myself, but the most important thing is to get the goal taken care of.
That's my perspective. Don't give up trying to get what you want, but take what you can get while you're going for it; and if you see a way that is better or will accomplish more or faster, take it. If you need to zoom in or out, do so.
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03 Nov 2021 22:46 #739
by mhalpern
THIS, this is more important than some realize, the current most valuable private company only made it off the ground because the founder knew the right questions to ask
Micro scenes and bad ideas are freely adoptable
Replied by mhalpern on topic Ribbon and Phase
. If she ends up having the money, she will have the knowledge to ask the right questions.
THIS, this is more important than some realize, the current most valuable private company only made it off the ground because the founder knew the right questions to ask
Micro scenes and bad ideas are freely adoptable
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